in true "blogs are the new mailing list for odd conversations" fashion, clarence wrote a response to my response to his blog about the new toolbar default in kde4. (random thought: is there an agregator that uses trackbacks or other such metadata to thread blogs into conversations?)
i like clarence's new 6 element toolbar for kde4. it's much more task appropriate and easier to manage. he does bring up two issues that i agree are valid to talk about: system wide merging messing up toolbars and icons under text adding to visual clutter.
in kde3 we have a system wide file that defines standard toolbars. the problem is that toolbars simply aren't standardizable in the same way that menubar layouts are in my opinion. toolbars simply don't cope with the odd "accidental" entry as they are way too "in the face" of the user. perhaps in kde4 we shouldn't define a default toolbar at all and make it opt-in per-application so that we get task appropriate toolbars. the number of apps that don't use the system definition with noMerge is already pretty high anyways.
as for text adding visual clutter, if we use a nice (e.g. smaller) font for it it really doesn't get in the way. i've been using toolbars with text under the icons since 3.5 was released (to get some first hand experience with it in prep for kde4) and the problems are long names and big font sizes. they help disambiguate toolbar icons quite nicely so i don't have to learn every single app inside and out. and in clarence's screenshot it's obvious that sometimes it even shows contextual information, as can be seen in the "Undo: Line" button.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
6 comments:
Just thought I'd pass along what I think is a great idea from a comment on Clarence's blog:
Anonymous said...
Why not mix both, tooltip and icon text?
I.e. as soon as you move your mouse over the icon bar the text for all icons fades in below the icons. Make an animation of the icon bar expanding downwards so the text becomes visible, you just need some visual cue where the smaller textless bar ends because as soon as the mouse leaves that space the icon bar shrinks back to its standard size.
This solves the problem with other languages where words are longer (because as the expansion is only temporary you can have it expand two lines), you can use larger text (most text-under-icons bars have either too much empty space or too small text), and a cleaner look as long as the design and animation of the expanding bit is nicely done.
By default, all KDE apps show a lot of icons in the toolbar without label.
In my case, all the KDE common users I meet don't like to put the mouse over a icon to read the tooltip and discover what that icon is for. They simply don't use that icon except if it's obvious:
- A "mail send" icon is obvious in a mail program, but not in a paint program.
I agree with the proposals: KDE should show less, bigger and labeled icons in all the apps. In this way the apps could be easier and more intuitive for users the first time they open it, and they won't be satured with so many small and unrecognizable icons.
... and these contextual information could be looong.
>as for text adding visual >clutter, if we use a nice >(e.g. smaller) font for it >it really doesn't get in the way
I thought you'd like to do "it" for better usability. A fair share of people on this small planet is short-sighted. A smaller font is no solution to the problem. Text under toolbar icons was, is and remains not a good idea. I'd say go the opposite: Make sure tooltips text is not that small or better configurable and add a max char value to the KDE hig so the tooltips fit on the screen even when using a large fontsize, as some handicapped people might prefer.
I know this might sound like a cop out, but I really, really like Microsoft's "ribbon" idea. I have been using the Office Beta for a few months now and have absolutely fallen for the design. It is so quick, efficient, and useful. If there are no copy right violations, I wonder how many KDE apps can use, and improve this concept?
@chris george:
me too. i've been using it for a few hours, and i was already solved. it is amazing how you can use it to do the most difficult stuff in an easy way. especially powerpoint really shines with it. KDE definitely should try it, see if it works. MS Office is a good piece of work, contrary to MS Vista (tough vista also has a few nice things, but nothing which won't be in KDE 4 i think). it wouldn't hurt if ppl working on KDE had a look at it ;-)
Post a Comment