Tuesday, June 23, 2009

innovate much?

It's funny: some years ago the F/OSS desktop was said to not be innovating much, if at all. Woe from above was upon us due to our tail-light chasing! Today, maybe we are innovating too much, posits Bruce Byfield.

Are we? It's a good question.

There are two kinds of changes: changes for change's sake. Those sometimes work out, though most often they don't. There is also change with a purpose. Those often work out, though sometimes they don't. Due to this shaky track record on both paths, it's hard to tell them apart.

It's also true that as a species we fear change, which is a successful evolutionary trait. This does not help when we are trying to create. Creation is change. Change is scary. We fear creation. This, too, does not help in making good decisions.

What we ought to be aware of is that we aren't making change for change's sake, but that we are making change where it benefits us. How do you measure that, though? Hard to do, but here's a way I've discovered that's not half bad: talk to people. Lots of people. Lots of different kinds of people.

If you tell them the story of what you're doing as if you'd seen someone else was doing it (if you say you're doing it, people tend to be too kind out of politeness in my experience) they'll often tell you what they think. If they sort of stare at you blankly, you know you don't have anything compelling. If they move on to another topic, then it's probably not much better, but at least understandable. If they start talking about it themselves and relating it to their own lives, then you have something.

Now, it's easy to figure that some changes are needed: our software needs to look beautiful and work well. We have sore spots, like multimedia (which we tried to address with Phonon only to have the distributions yank the rug out from under us by introducing media servers that, at least currently, suck), and those we need to work on. You won't get people chatting about it, but we all know that if we put a pretty piece of iCandy in front of someone they'll tend to pick it over something less appealing.

Other changes, however, are more elusive. For those we need clear purpose and vision, backed up with a clear reason for them.

The social desktop is a interesting example, as are remote widgets (not windows, as Bruce wrote; that's something slightly different :), as is the idea of a re-targetable user interface layer. What are the use cases for these? How do they make people's lives better in some compelling way?

Well, I'm not going to try and convince you in this blog entry. I've talked about the use cases in previous blog entries, and I've talked with rediculous number of people on the street about them. The ideas appeal to rank-and-file human beings, and that's what matters.

The other stuff (beauty, working sound) are the bar we have to clear before we are considered contenders ... but it's the innovative features, and having the "right" mix of them, that we will win or lose on.

There is one thing I agree, at least now, with Bruce on: our users who make up our "online community" (a.k.a. the people who read this blog, or slashdot, etc..) don't want much innovation on the desktop. That's sad: most of you are happy with what most of the world is frustrated by. I don't know many things more tragic than that.

All is not lost, however. We have new devices and new forms of computer usage. That is where innovation will continue, and from there it will seep down into the "traditional desktop" bit by bit until you can't imagine it not being like that forever.

I've watched as individual after individual has warmed up to the ideas we've put forward in KDE 4; and we aren't even at the end post yet. There are those who are still unhappy and doubters, but such is the way of change. Even change with purpose. We need to escape the single % market share we have, and that takes change. Doing what we've done with limited, though still surprising, success won't cut it.

The true irony in all this is that I was holding off on a new blog entry because I wanted to post about the number of crashes we've resolved in 4.3. We killed some of the truly annoying ones, including some reports that had 50 or more duplicates in bugs.kde.org. Those are satisfying kills, if hard won. I wanted to write about the patterns in these bugs that I've been noticing, something that I think is a directly result of the rather different design of Plasma. Instead I'm writing about innovation, and not the dirty work of bug fixing and combing through backtraces.

Too often it gets lost than in the midst of pushing forward and innovating and dreaming and inspiring and ... well, whatever else we do that's scary and dangerous and evocative .. we are in the trenches making strong what once was weak, a task that takes great effort and determination.

Einstein Edison said that genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. He was right. We do have a lot of inspiration around us, but it's hardly light-hearted and we match it with perspiration. I enjoy reading articles like Bruce's, as they remind us to keep our head in the clouds but our feet on the ground. As long as we don't pull our heads from the skies and plunge them into the sand, we'll be just fine.

30 comments:

Michael said...

That was Thomas Edison. (Well, somebody was going to...).

I'd be interested in hearing more about what you see as the social desktop's future. And remote widgets. And more?

nico said...

Desktop PCs might not need more innovation but the desktop UI sucks for smaller devices like netbooks. It also sucks for things like TVs and pretty much anything else that isn't a desktop computer. I like the direction KDE is taking and I hope to see more innovation.

Goliath23 said...

Hi Aaron,

my comment is only slightly related to innovation in general but more to how you push those innovations out. The particular thing, which made B. (my girlffriend) complain about KDE4 when I upgraded was this (and I think it could as well be a bad default setting choice by Kubuntu):

There is a new KWin effect which makes all windows but one translucent if the mouse cursor stays more than a second or so on one entry in the taskbar.

While this might be a nice effect for a few people, it is very disturbing if you (like me and my gf) just move the cursor downwards to get it out of the ways while you are reading and writing something.

Also you have to really know the dialog and the name of the KWin effect to turn it off.

Long story short: I think it's offen a question of sensible default settings (maybe also a topic for your branding post a few days ago).

This default setting in particular was a very unfortunate decision in my eyes and is a very good example on _pushing_ innovation not asked for to the user.

Cheers,

David

Matthieu Gallien said...

Hi,
I would be really interested to hear more about innovations that you do not want to push to the desktop in order to avoid all the "I DO NOT WANT ANY CHANGE" crowd.
By the way thank you for your blogs and the work of all the plasma devs.

Best regards

maninalift said...

@Goliath23

I agree that that effect should probably not be there by default.

This brings up a wider point. Free, community-driven software will never have the level of human interface review and top-down whole-project design> Things linke this will sometimes slip though but it has other advantages, such a greater closeness to it's user-base and ability to respond.

A lot of developers are working on things simply because they are interested in them and preventing them from innovating would kill the community. So some amount of innovation "for the sake of it" is necessary.

On the other hand all the developers want to be part of making a useful beautiful desktop that lots of users enjoy. It is a matter of balance and aligning the goals of everyone just enough... where am I going I don't really know

I think I am saying the article points a finger at project leaders such as Aaron for driving unnecessary change when innovations will be happening anyway and the leadership roles of those people is probably more to encourage developers to a common purpose and to work on complementary frameworks, not to force people into ever more outlandish innovations.

Perhaps I've missed the point.

AIM said...

Some innovations are good some are bad, having desktop effects is good, but making nearly all plasma themes look bad without them is bad.

Having a standard framework for widgets is good, making everything into plasma widgets is bad.

Again having kwin effects is good, but having few window decorations is bad, also having it difficult to make new ones is even worst.

Another problem is that some applications ex: Krusader are unusable and some distributions make it a pain to revert to the old one.

So this is the problem, KDE is focused on some parts but looses on other parts which are at least as important.

KenP said...

Aaron, about the social networking thing ... well, I feel there's a bit of envy in comments posted on the net (like Bruce's). Trust me, every desktop project out there is working on it but since KDE4 is leading, its bound to cause heartburn and envy.

I, for one, am looking forward to it working in KDE4!!

Keep it up.

Zarin said...

@Goliath23 @maninalift:

The highlight window KWin effect has been disabled by default in RC1+ as it is quite obvious that the current Plasma activation code for it is VERY broken, making the effect more annoying than usable.

behavedave said...

@AIM "Having a standard framework for widgets is good, making everything into plasma widgets is bad"

Why? I mean how would a component suffer from being written with the plasmoid framework as opposed to it being exactly the same but created in straight QT. I could only see it losing nice integration like styling and being more code to maintain.

I have to admit I use the old style 'start menu' and that is quite a bit slower (as in appearing on my screen but much quicker to use than the new style constrained size menu's) but I'm fairly sure that isn't because its written in the Plasma framework.

Aaron J. Seigo said...

@nico: "Desktop PCs might not need more innovation"

i think they do, but that a vocal minority tries very hard to prevent it.

"the desktop UI sucks for smaller devices like netbooks."

agreed; and as you point out, this is where we can make improvements.

@AIM: first, you're talking about something very different from innovation. you're talking about pretty mundane features and their implementation details.

"but making nearly all plasma themes look bad without them is bad."

that's up to the artist, and several of the themes available where the artist has put in the time and effort look great with or without compositing.

"Having a standard framework for widgets is good, making everything into plasma widgets is bad."

making everything in KDE's svn a plasma widget would be, but making everything on the panels/desktops/etc follow one object model is a huge plus. some object model is needed (kicker had one as well, of course) and trying to manage multiple object models together is just ludicrous.

so i don't understand your "one object model is bad" concept. maybe you could explain it further.

"Again having kwin effects is good, but having few window decorations is bad, also having it difficult to make new ones is even worst."

of course, these things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. in fact, i'd say that if i had to pick between solid kwin effects and making it easy to make new window decorations, it's a no-brainer: while window decorations are a fun way to customize things, desktop effects give us not only far more bling but also accessibility features like proper full screen magnification and usability improvements like window switching techniques easier for more people.

but hey, someone _is_ working on an svg-able window decoration for kwin, which makes it as easy to theme kwin as it is to theme plasma. so with a bit of patience you'll get your cake and be able to eat it too.

"Another problem is that some applications ex: Krusader are unusable and some distributions make it a pain to revert to the old one."

this was true of the KDE1->KDE2 change as well, of course. the distribution's choices are not ours, and if some application isn't fully ported to Qt4 that's not something we can do other than to help them out if we have time.

"KDE is focused on some parts but looses on other parts which are at least as important"

not one of your points, other than applications needing to finish porting efforts, are negative changes over KDE3.

kwin decorations were not easy to make back then, and the icewm decos were pretty old at that point.

plasma looks better than kicker ever did, including without compositing as i'm using _right now_. (complaining that not every theme works perfectly without compositing is odd when several do.)

at the same time, we've gone miles further in other areas that KDE3 never touched.

so i don't think your arguments actually hold water, and as KDE4 continues to evolve it's making that fairly evident.

@Goliat23 & maninalift: well, this is why we do pre-releases like betas and RCs and get feedback from people as well as do "field testing" on people in our own vicinity: to get feedback on features like this.

you're right that not every single idea will work out perfectly (and i say as much in the blog entry, actually :), but we do have ways to work through that as a process.

@Zarin: what exactly is broken in the Plasma activation code? i'm happy to fix/improve it, but from my understanding it's mostly just one of those features that people don't particularly like due to, as the commenter noted, making hovering over the taskbar a bit too annoying/awkward. it's a nice optional feature though :)

anyways, find me on irc and we can discuss how it could be improved.

Fri13 said...

I think the article miss points of innovating and configuring them as defaults for normal user.

I believe that KDE really innovates the desktop environment. Even more than MS and is tie with Apple. But KDE earlier versions problem was that default settings were terrible. Almost all features were enabled by default so user can find them and just disable what does not need.

KDE4 was great by disabling features and enabling only the basic features. This of course brings lots of trouble when people is asking is Foo possible to get on KDE?

KDE can continue innovating stuff for people (head on the clouds), but just keeping default settings simple and clear (feets on the ground) and everything goes great!

Bugs Bane said...

As a long time reader of your blog Aaron, I'd just like to say:

Bring on the change!

Personally, I've loved KDE4 from the first alpha release. I love the promise of it and can't wait to see the promise transform into reality (as much of it has been already). Although the naysayers may sqeal louder, don't ignore the people who *love* the work all the KDE'ers are doing. I've noticed rather a lot of people blogging things like "Well, I'm more of a Gnome guy myself... but... well, KDE is looking so damn nice these days, I just thought I'd... well... give it a try. On my main system. By itself. Okaythanksbye!" :)

You had the guts to oversee the major changes needed to turn KDE into the beautiful, sexy beast its become.

Don't stop now. :)

TeeAhr1 said...

Aaron-
I liked this post so much I wrote a "metoo" post before I even finished reading (it's here if you're interested). But I wanted to chime and here and say that was well said at the end there too. Good post.

Tobias said...

Hi,

I think it is unfair to say that all the people who don't like the way some things are heading are against innovation in general. E.g. I don't like some things about plasma. I don't care about desktop plasmoids at all (though I care about panel plasmoids). I think that Kicker worked better for my workflow than the current plasma panel (though I understand the need to get rid of unmaintainable code). I don't care about having multiple desktops AND multiple workspaces (or whatever they are called).

So you would probably say I'm against innovation.

However, I'd love to see something like a real dock in the panel (i.e. program starters that will raise the program if it already exists and will prevent the program to be shown in the task bar). I love some desktop effects like "Present Windows" and would love to be able to close windows from there as in Compiz. I would love to see something like "Saved Searches" Folders (as exists in Thunderbird) in Dolphin and I would love to have real incremental find (inside file names) in Dolphin as well (not filtering, just highlighting).

I also like the direction that KRunner is taking (though it is way too slow on my PC) and would love this to be developed further in something similar to ubiquity for Firefox enabling me to write something like "convert all images in this folder to 1024x768".

All of these things are innovation as well in my opinion. Just not always the kind of innovation that is pushed right now...

Aaron J. Seigo said...

@Tobias: "I think it is unfair to say that all the people who don't like the way some things are heading are against innovation in general"

it's more than just "not liking", it's actively working against things. there are lots of things i could care less about it in various applications (including plasma; there are some features there that i really don't use or care to use :), but that's not a reason (alone) to struggle _against_ those features.

"I don't care about desktop plasmoids at all (though I care about panel plasmoids)."

thankfully they are the same thing and you can just not put them on the desktop. it's not necessary to push all the buttons and pull all the levers :)

"I think that Kicker worked better for my workflow"

how?

"I don't care about having multiple desktops AND multiple workspaces"

right, some people don't. that's fine, you can ignore them.

note that you can now put a different Activity on each desktop if you want, which some people who didn't care about Activities before have really latched on to.

"So you would probably say I'm against innovation."

probably not. only if you are against anyone working on those features or claiming that because _you_ don't use them or need them that they are, therefore, bad/wrong/useless in general.

not all innovations will be useful to all people. that is, imho, an axiom. yet some people want things to absolutely not change in any way; they are anti-progress in most any form. the only changes they will accept are ones that keep everything else they know the same and add only new things that don't interact with those same things they already know.

pretty limiting.

"I'd love to see something like a real dock in the panel "

completely possible; a couple of people sent in GSoC proposals for this, but it didn't make the cut.

"I love some desktop effects like "Present Windows" and would love to be able to close windows from there as in Compiz."

yep ... :)

"I would love to see something like "Saved Searches" Folders (as exists in Thunderbird) in Dolphin and I would love to have real incremental find (inside file names) in Dolphin as well (not filtering, just highlighting)."

both of those are the realm of Nepomuk, and with nepomukquery:/ are actually already possible. it's still in active development, however; they did just have a devel sprint, though, so that's good. and nepomuk is certainly part of (even a BIG part of) the innovation going on in KDE.

"I also like the direction that KRunner is taking (though it is way too slow on my PC)"

display or computation? if the latter, try turning off some of the runners (nepomuk, maybe?) and see if that helps any.

"and would love this to be developed further in something similar to ubiquity for Firefox enabling me to write something like "convert all images in this folder to 1024x768"."

well, with the right runner it should work out nicely. whether to make one big NLP runner or a larger number of pidgin-speaking runners is a good question, but either approach would give the same end result to the user.

"All of these things are innovation as well in my opinion."

absolutely.

Aaron J. Seigo said...

.. cont.

"Just not always the kind of innovation that is pushed right now..."

we're the same ones pushing these things, too, though. krunner, in fact, is part of the plasma project, and has been since day 1.

we're pushing a whole portfolio of innovative work forward. some of it you will like, some of it you won't care about and some of it is bound to not work out at all.

but that's the idea of having a holistic vision for what we're trying to do.

pretty much all of the innovation we have put forward in kde4 falls within that vision of "breathtakingly beautiful social/contextual software that runs everywhere". krunner, nepomuk and the desktop effects are all elements of innovation within that, and that is precisely what we're pushing on.

the things you mention you don't care about too much .. well, just consider those as having come along for the ride.

there is a certain amount of indivisibility in results, however: krunner would not exist, and i doubt similar alternatives would be included in KDE by default, if plasma hadn't come around.

krunner also inspired the integration of the system activity window so it isn't a separate application and therefore is more useful when you really need it since you don't have to wait as long.

similar beneficial chains of cause/effect can be found throughout KDE4.

AIM said...

"first, you're talking about something very different from innovation. you're talking about pretty mundane features and their implementation details."

I'm talking about the fact that innovation is ineffective if the basic stuff are not right.

"Why? I mean how would a component suffer from being written with the plasmoid framework as opposed to it being exactly the same but created in straight QT. I could only see it losing nice integration like styling and being more code to maintain."

"making everything in KDE's svn a plasma widget would be, but making everything on the panels/desktops/etc follow one object model is a huge plus. some object model is needed (kicker had one as well, of course) and trying to manage multiple object models together is just ludicrous."

Ohh come one, what use does the network manager and several other apps have on my desktop? Don't tell me most users prefer that instead of an elegant systray icon that has nice context menus.

"but hey, someone _is_ working on an svg-able window decoration for kwin, which makes it as easy to theme kwin as it is to theme plasma. so with a bit of patience you'll get your cake and be able to eat it too.
"

I have read the post about it, and I was happy but don't quite get it why did it get such a low priority, all other DE's had this for a long time.

"so i don't think your arguments actually hold water, and as KDE4 continues to evolve it's making that fairly evident."

It's your point of view, my colleagues, my gf and I go for stability and basic stuff that XP has, but that's just us. KDE is evolving, which I see day by day, too bad it didn't reach the point when it's usable to us, although I have to admit a lot of bad things come from the distribution's bad adoption, maybe evolution is most desired there.

BTW: When will the netbook edition of KDE will be available?

Aaron J. Seigo said...

@AIM: "I'm talking about the fact that innovation is ineffective if the basic stuff are not right."

obviously we want to get the "basic stuff" right as well, though innovation and doing that are not mutually exclusive. in fact, i say as much in the blog entry. imho, they need to go hand in hand and we need to be doing both.

"I mean how would a component suffer from being written with the plasmoid framework as opposed to it being exactly the same but created in straight QT. I could only see it losing nice integration like styling and being more code to maintain."

well, yes. you'd end up rewriting much of what we already have. sharing technology is kind of the point. moreover, if everyone writes their own little thing, then none of those things will work nicely together.

it's sort of goes without saying that we'd like the things in the panel or on the desktop to work well together.

(and it's Qt, btw, not QT; QT is QuickTime)

"what use does the network manager and several other apps have on my desktop?"

the point is not "you can put your network manager on your desktop". the point is that the network manager is the same kind of thing (component) as anything else.

that means we can have things you can put on your desktop, the dashboard, a panel or elsewhere (e.g. the media center containment that is in development) next to and working perfectly with the network manager widget.

that you can put the network manager on your desktop is just a side effect. though there are some people who do put their system tray on the desktop. no, i'm not kidding. :)

as for "elegant in the system tray" the system tray was horrifically broken by design; we've reworked it and now we can have nice and proper entries in there. and for the apps that work with them, it's a good idea. and we can put plasmoids next to (or even in, though that needs some more polishing work) the system tray.

now if we go to different kinds of devices... say a handheld with a pretty small screen. maybe we want to have a "network connection" page ... and that would just be the network manager widget on a planar containment (which is also what the desktop is).

so just because you CAN do something (put the network manager widget on your desktop) doesn't mean you can, need or should do that, nor does that mean it's the purpose.

sometimes good ideas have little side effects that are inconsequential and not relevant to the overall plan at all.

picking on those side effects is really, well .. silly.

"Don't tell me most users prefer that instead of an elegant systray icon that has nice context menus."

that's a straw man argument if there ever was one :)

"but don't quite get it why did it get such a low priority, all other DE's had this for a long time."

because the goal isn't to match every other DE feature-for-feature as if that was the winning line. the goal is to create something _good for people to use_ and there's a lot of shit features out there and a lot of only-semi-useful features.

being able to easily create window decorations is an only-semi-useful feature. it makes no sense to prioritize making it possible to theme a window decoration with pixmaps or SVGs when we have some very nice ones available and the efforts are needed on things like desktop effects and new/improved window management.

"When will the netbook edition of KDE will be available?"

you mean the one that wouldn't be happening without a framework that lets you put the network manager on the desktop as a side-effect?

we're aiming for a first release with 4.4 and seem to be generally on target for that right now.

Jonas said...

@Aaron,

"There is one thing I agree, at least now, with Bruce on: our users who make up
our "online community" (a.k.a. the people who read this blog, or slashdot,
etc..) don't want much innovation on the desktop."

I'm not sure I agree with this. Sure, some don't. That's a given and will probably
always be a given.

And people who uses computers a lot will always have some degree of having to adjust
to different environments. People who uses KDE/Gnome at home but have to work using
Windows for example, or Vista at home and XP at work, to just use two obvious examples.
So, in short, I don't think it's necessarily a case of being afraid of the uknown
either. Not always anyway, and especially not in the case of KDE 3 versus 4. The latter
can be made to look almost indistinguishable to the former if one/the distro really wants
to).

What I think is more of an issue is: the fear of breakage and crashes. Now, I don't think KDE4
is any more crashprone than KDE3 was. It was early on but that's to be expected. And I suspect
Gnome will go through similar teething problems when the next generation of that DE is
released.

What I'm trying to say, in a rather long-winded way, is that both KDE, Gnome, and Windows
has become victims of their own past successes. KDE3, Gnome 2.x, and Windows XP are generally
considered to be essentially rock-solid. KDE4 has not yet been able to achieve that piece of
mind among users, rightfully or not. Neither has Vista or the yet-unreleased Gnome-NG.

If they had innovation would not, in my opinion, have been seen as a bad thing. It's not innovative
features that is the problem. If they don't suit the user, they can in many cases ignore them
and continue to work the same way as they always have. It's the perception of how stable the
environment is that is the problem.

Socceroos said...

Aaron, I'm loving the innovation in KDE. Like others, I've been excited about KDE4 since the first alpha. I use KDE 4.2 exclusively at work. Great stuff. =)

Also, what were you saying about Phonon? In your opinion, does PulseAudio make Phonon redundant? I love the idea of Phonon and am really gunning for it to be a major success. It just seemed that you were suggesting that once PulseAudio matures we wont have a need for Phonon?

AIM said...

"Also, what were you saying about Phonon? In your opinion, does PulseAudio make Phonon redundant? I love the idea of Phonon and am really gunning for it to be a major success. It just seemed that you were suggesting that once PulseAudio matures we wont have a need for Phonon?"

On this I agree with aseigo. PulseAudio is an early adopted crapware, it's concept is so wrong that there is not much to do to make it less worse, to put it short it has all the features that most people don't care about, and adds programing hell and audio lagg problems.

What happens when everybody realizes that the audio server thing just doesn't work? Then they will make PowerAudio, but it will have a bad API, so they will make TBLSSITU(The Best Linux Sound System In The Universe) to replace PowerAudio, but this will be the problem of the phonon developers, so developers that use phonon won't have to deal with this mess. Yes there is emulation but it for some reason always sucks.

Aaron J. Seigo said...

@Socceroos: no, what i was trying to politely say is that PulseAudio's introduction has messed things up for us. there was a period of time that audio was working brilliantly including things like transfering audio between devices when they plug in, flash+amarok+skype simultaneously, different kinds of audio to different devices .......

PA was adopted too early with too many compromises without answers (e.g. "who's going to fix the alsa bugs?"). it may not even work out at all, but if it does (and it could well do so), it was still far to early to inflict on most users.

the timing was, in general, pretty horrific for KDE4 as we got to the point where media was working really, really nicely and this happens on Linux. :/

oh well ...

regardless, Phonon is rocking on and development continues.

Jim Henderson said...

In many ways, I think that the KDE and GNOME communities have suffered from a tragic lack of innovation in the last few years - we lack killer applications atop our state-of-the-art foundations. I'm not having a go at you, Aaron... You've got a vision and the balls to do it, and I can appreciate the idea of Linux from the tiniest embedded system to the largest mainframe with software just running on any of those; portable and scalable. That's a strong foundation.

Mostly, I get the feeling that innovation ground to a halt when everyone got so worked up about usability on osnews at the point of the GNOME 2 introduction. It became a convenient proxy for anti-KDE animosity and GNOME2 fan-boyism, to justify the GUI changes and massive feature regression that occurred during that time. But the trouble is, that we've been stuck there, ever since. Because Apple made things over-simplified, the road to user acceptance must surely be over-simplification, right??? :( It's the road to less than 10% market share forever.

In the end, OSX has simplification that is feature-limiting to users, and that is one of the many reasons that it doesn't gain more market share, especially outside the US. For all of the lousy defaults, hundreds of dialogs and tens of thousands of options in XP, it has gained massive market share. Sure, there are bundling/OEM issues that increase that share, but Windows has blossomed in many ways, because SMB is so convenient for business, MS Office runs well, and VB and C# are easy to develop simple applications for that serve the small tasks that SMEs need.

Functionality massively trumps usability.

On the flipside, innovation for functionality can be due to usability:

Why is the iPhone so successful right now? Not because of the interface, which is utilitarian at best in most applications, but because it gave access to a lot of really tiny programs that users found to be useful in an immediate way. Other phones had a good camera, or a good screen, or GPS maps, or functional e-mail, but none just brought the features together. The iPhone innovated in a simple sense that it brought everything together in a functional way. People could get stuff done.

I love Plasma, I love KDE 4, and bug-fixing and prettification are very valuable at this stage, but innovation is truly the only means to change the game.

Roll on the killer apps and new ideas. Let's stop using our computers as just electronic versions of what we used to do with pen, paper, books and canvas at our desks and build new modes of use that aren't such limited metaphors.

seajey said...

being able to easily create window decorations is an only-semi-useful feature. it makes no sense to prioritize making it possible to theme a window decoration with pixmaps or SVGs when we have some very nice ones available and the efforts are needed on things like desktop effects and new/improved window management.

But you can do it now:
Aurorae Theme Engine

behavedave said...

I thought PA and Phonon weren't comparable as Phonon can also handle video through multiple backends and provides a stable API for multimedia where as with PA you still have to change application code to work with another multimedia back end.

BTW if you just uninstall Pulseausio as documented in a few places on the web all starts working again fine - I know everything should work out of the box if the solutions exist however its a bit like KDE 4.1 where mass adoption and bug reporting where needed to get it in a good enough state.

Qt not QT - thanks Aaron, I once used QT on a Mac and the entire desktop froze for the video I wanted to watch and had to be rebooted. I've heard they are very good but that soured my experience somewhat (VLC and Xine worked great for it, GStreamer worked but the quality was terrible and blocky).

Kevin said...

@assigo: "our users who make up our "online community" (a.k.a. the people who read this blog, or slashdot, etc..) don't want much innovation on the desktop. That's sad: most of you are happy with what most of the world is frustrated by. I don't know many things more tragic than that."

It is not sad, nor tragic, it's expected and human nature.

The people who are happy with the way things are and the ones that have invested time and effort into learning the arcane interfaces that have been given us.

It's natural for anyone to want to protect their intellectual investment, especially if they have invested enough energy to get the kind of returns that they need.

Tobias said...

Hi,

ok, so it seems you didn't mean me with what you said. I think, your "That's sad: Most of you are happy with what most of the world is frustrated by" comment pushed some button for me because I just don't think that's true. It might be true if you replaced the first "most" by "some".

****
"there are some features there that i really don't use or care to use :), but that's not a reason (alone) to struggle _against_ those features."
****

That's absolutely true and as long as I can just turn the features off that I don't want to use I'm perfectly happy with them being developed and I know that some day I might like them, too.

****
"I think that Kicker worked better for my workflow"

how?
****

Actually, now that you ask, it wasn't right to talk about "workflow" here. What I really meant is that I can set it up more to my taste. One issue is that there is no easy way for flexible spaces on the plasma panels (at least last time I checked). I found a plasmoid that does it but this shouldn't be the way to go. I set up two panels and the one at the top has the start menu, some program starters and other applets/plasmoids and the the system tray and the clock on the right. This is not straightforward with plasma. Another thing is that very small panels (24 pixels) are not straightforward. I had to change a theme for it to work well and now some things still look out of place (some things not centered correctly, etc.). Also I want both of my panels to be the same size. This is also not straightforward. I think all of this will someday work but at the moment it is a regression for me without any usability benefits for what I want to do (I know that there ARE benefits that just don't affect me directly).

****
"I'd love to see something like a real dock in the panel "

completely possible; a couple of people sent in GSoC proposals for this, but it didn't make the cut.
****
Actually, the guys who develop STasks seem to think it is not so easy (at least if they want to use the current window list (?) to handle the tasks). I think that communication with the window list about which windows to show and which windows to hide might be hard... or you'd have to write another window list... or integrate the dock icons with the current window list...

***
both of those are the realm of Nepomuk, and with nepomukquery:/ are actually already possible.
***
Ok, I didn't get Nepomuk and Strigi to really work with my OpenSuse Trunk build. But then I haven't tried really hard, either. Looking forward to it!

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"I also like the direction that KRunner is taking (though it is way too slow on my PC)"

display or computation?
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How can I tell? E.g. If I start to write a program name, I have finished the whole name before anything is shown in KRunner, so it doesn't help much :)

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well, with the right runner it should work out nicely. whether to make one big NLP runner or a larger number of pidgin-speaking runners is a good question, but either approach would give the same end result to the user.
***
I think, a good approach of Ubiquity is the use of "this" and similar things. I don't know if it is possible in KRunner but I think it would be awesome if e.g. "this folder" would mean the folder I was in in Dolphin when I pressed ALT+F2 or "the clipboard" would refer to whatever is in the clipboard. Things like that...

Well, whatever, I think we're not so far apart. Sorry for shouting a little before. I guess I was a little too sensitive there. :)

Diego Viola said...

Just ignore them, those kind of people always likes to whine and they will whine about anything, even for no reason at all. I learned that if you give A to people, they will always say B, and if you give them B they will always want A.

I think we can't make everyone happy, just ignore them and do what you do best, I think KDE is today the best Linux DE I ever used, keep up the great work.

J. Blow said...

I got the impression that the linux desktops are "innovating too much", ever since i'm using them - which has been almost a decade now.

With every upgrade I hoped to receive something more stable and reliable, but it turned out that my expectations were naive. There is no doubt that lots of things have improved, but generally the "this is cool" versus "this sucks" quotient seems to stay pretty constant. GNOME seems to do slightly better in this respect - perhaps because of a minimalistic and less ambitious approach, but IMHO still not good enough "for the masses"...

Aaron J. Seigo said...

@J. Blow: i don't think your comment is borne out at all by KDE's progress during stable series. 3.0->3.5 was an improvement in each release with few regressions. 4.0-4.2 (soon 4.3) has been similarly progressive in that direction.

there are problems, however, that exist in two places imho:

* the platform as a whole is often too jell-o like, in large part due to the unpredictability of decision making when it comes to systems integration choices. just when we get sound working absolutely beautifully for users, pulse audio is adopted by distributions and throws the sound scape into utter chaos. this is not unlike the distributions pushing KDE 4.0 out to their end users in stable distro releases.

* we have built KDE (and the other DEs are no different in this IME) for 5 year runs. they really need to be built with a 10-15 year life span from the time of production readiness. we got a lot closer with KDE 3, but KDE 4 needs to be usable by people at least a decade from now.

why this is important is not immediately obvious perhaps:

when a desktop system becomes unworkable due to the movement of technology, then one of two things happen:

we start a major renovation, which takes time to settle down into a good place.

we hide from the problems and the platform becomes solid, sure, but also uninteresting and non-competitive.

if we build desktop systems that are maleable "underneath" in such as way that we can modify discreet components without it ever showing up in the user's applications or to the application developer, we can keep platform level innovation happening "down below" while we solidify and improve the parts that come into contact with the user directly.

the UI bits often take quite a while to get right, and not because they are technologically difficult problems.

the bits under the UI will change from time to time due to improved capabilities of hardware/network/etc and requirements evolve.

we need to keep the two working together, but flexible as a joint in a skeletal system is.

the biggest innovations in KDE4 are all nestled into these exact sort of "jointed" systems. that, perhaps, is part of the innovation even.

i personally want KDE 4 to be able to be competitive and usable for the next 10 years. it will likely look a lot better/different then than it does now, but it will be the same infrastructure and many of the UI bits will be baked nice and hard by that point.

this was, btw, one of the explicitly stated goals those of us who were talking holistically about KDE 4 had: longevity through flexibility placed at the right points.

we still have to execute on that over the next 10 years of course, and we still don't have a good solution for the downstream systems integration challenges we face ...

i guess what i'm saying is that i understand your experience, i think we've done well in the past but only in spots and not with enough longevity in any of the software to date ... and that the innovation we're doing now is to address those issues.